Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

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Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby richjoh » Fri May 29, 2020 5:19 am

I am requesting that Mixxx provide 24bit 192kHz support. Virtual DJ supports 24bit 192kHz, there maybe other DJ SW supporting the format too.

SMH when I read this from the user manual. Downloads maybe silly but capability to playback is not.
----------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE "For a more thorough and technical explanation of why 16 bits at 44.1 kHz is all that is needed for playback, read
24/192 Music Downloads Are Very Silly Indeed."
---------------------------------------------------------------

15 YRS AGO I RECORDED MY VINYL COLLECTION, I WANT THE BETTER TRANSFER OF MY VINYL NOW THAT I HAVE BETTER EQUIPMENT.
In mid year 2000, I transfer vinyl at 16bit 48kHz (I was in a hurry). I can do a much better job today to preserve the vinyl. I plan to do my entire collection again (not everything) at 24bit, 192kHz. This require cleaning of vinyl and saving the file to WAV or FLAC format. (Hearing is the only sensory that operates as fast as 10usec. All other bodily sensors are at least 100X slower. 24bit, 192kHz sampling meets the 10us criteria. Example, your out in the woods area alone, you hear a twig snap, you can sense distance and location in 10us timeframe. Same procedure when critically listening to music, you must have good source, obviously, and good (high fidelity) audio hardware. I'm always improving my sound system, over the years, my ear have less tolerance for garbage in garbage out audio.)

YOUR GOING TO FORCE ME TO DOWN SAMPLE JUST TO USE MIXXX. NOW I HAVE TO KEEP 2 COPIES, ORIGINAL AND DOWNSAMPLE. CLUTTER.
If I sampled at 192kHz and DJ software does not support that, now I must down convert 96kHz just because DJ software does not support the samplerate. Meanwhile audiofiles get to playback files that DJ can't playback. Check out your typical motherboard soundcard, in this year 2020, most will support 24bit , 192kHz playback. Why can't DJ software do this as yet.

I WANT TO LISTEN TO HIGHER QUALITY AUDIO, i CAN DEFINITELY HEAR A DIFFERENCE OF 16BIT 44KHZ VS 24BIT 192KHZ.
I made recording, analyzed the waveform and listen comparison using a switch (SW or HW) to compare what I'm hearing. 24bit, 192kHz sound better. I don't care about file size, 250MB size WAV or FLAC file, equates to 1TeraByte/250M = 40,000 lossless music files. Tera=1Xe12, 1,000,000,000,000,000

MY CPU & SOUNDCARD HARDWARE CAN EASILY HANDLE THE PROCESSING OF HIGH QUALITY AUDIO FILES.
Check out the Audio chip on your desktop PC or laptop motherboard, it's likely to handle 24bit, 192kHz playback multichannel. 96kHz samplerate is quite ubiquitous in DJ hardware now. My speaker sound processor is at 96kHz, My Pioneer EFX-1000 at 96kHz. I use an analog mixer cus it sounds way better but companies are making all digital mixer at 96kHz internal digital sampling. 96kHz equipment will get replaced at some point, manufacture will make it so cheap that 192kHz or even 384kHz will become attainable by the semi-pro.

I WANT TO PRESERVE AS MUCH OF MY OLD MUSIC THAT TODAY CANNOT BE REPLICATED IN PLAYBACK BY TODAYS DJ-PRODUCER/MUSICIAN OR IN ELECTRONICS MUSIC PRODUCTION.

MY ENTIRE COLLECTION OF MUSIC IS NOT 24BIT 192KHZ, BUT I WANT THE CAPABILITY TO PLAYBACK THE DAME FILES IF I HAVE THEM.
Will I still have my collection of mp3 320kbps files? Of course, I get plenty from my record pool. Sometimes the pool will release a throwback aka oldie-but-goldie record and the transfer is not great.

With that said, I am going to begin to pull boxes at a time of my vinyl collection, clean using wet sponge (vinegar based cleaning), rinse with running water, dry with cotton cloth. Technics 1200, Nagaoka MP-150 cartridge, Schitt Mani phono preamp, Bozak 102DL mixer, using Tracktion and Audicity recording software proceed to transfer hand picked vinyl. This is alot of work but my passion. (Why should I have to down-sample just because DJ software doesn't support the format?) Besides that I can hear a difference using the higher quality audio compared to the transferred I did years ago.
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby Mixxx MIxxxermannn » Fri May 29, 2020 9:34 pm

192k capable hardware is probably not common enough to make this a priority
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby richjoh » Sat May 30, 2020 5:46 am

You will keep Mixxx not compatible with 192kHz audio interfaces settings on many pieces of amateur recording interfaces and sound equipment today. The drop down-menu goes to 96kHz in Preferences if the soundcard is set to 192kHz, Mixxx will crash. <-- A bug if you ask me.

Eventually, every audio interface will suppport 24bit 192kHz.
Attachments
M-Audio Interface.PNG
A 24bit 192kHz interface (low latency)
M-Audio Interface.PNG (200.25 KiB) Viewed 3194 times
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby JosepMa » Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:46 pm

Hello richjoh.

First, it is not very polite to make a first post shouting at the people that you want help from. Using capital letters when not needed is considered shouting.

Next, it is no surprise that if you record your tracks today you get better quality than 15 years ago. You are hearing the evolution of soundcards
(Notably, if you were using an integrated soundcard instead of a dedicated or external soundcard, but external soundcards could have problems too back then).

I will not comment on ear sensitivity because I believe your conclusions are not well based.
I will simply tell you that you have a fundamental flaw in thinking that the smallest delay that can be stored is limited by the sampling rate. Sub-sample delays are possible.


Regarding Mixx, it is able to load tracks with a sampling rate of 192Khz. I tested a wav file, a FLAC file and an Ogg file. All them played as expected.
Obviously, this means that Mixxx is not forcing you to duplicate your track collection nor forcing you to downsample anything beforehand.

I will take a look because probably all that is needed to support 192Khz output on soundcards is adding the 192000 entry in that dropdown box.
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby richjoh » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:04 am

I guess I will use Virtual DJ and leave Mixxx alone. While your at it add 176.4kHz, I may come to use Mixxx.

Btw, sometimes a Title or Header are all caps. This isn't 1998 where u explain how to type into a computer.
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby Mixxx MIxxxermannn » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:07 pm

richjoh wrote:I guess I will use Virtual DJ and leave Mixxx alone. While your at it add 176.4kHz, I may come to use Mixxx.

Btw, sometimes a Title or Header are all caps. This isn't 1998 where u explain how to type into a computer.


You must be fun at parties
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby katsar0v » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:14 pm

I will be really thankful if the author of this somewhat senseless topic provides us two files - 192khz 24 bit and 16bit 44.1khz version. Let's do a vote - I'd suggest if more than 50% find a big difference, than we could think about implementing it.

Btw, sometimes a Title or Header are all caps. This isn't 1998 where u explain how to type into a computer.


I'd also suggest that the author learns some basic typography and formatting, not only for articles, but for web.
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby richjoh » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:53 am

So it turns out that Virtual DJ (VDJ) DVS is not at an acceptable level to use. Anyone off the street can clearly hear the pitch/tempo wining (changing) as if the turntable pitch is being quickly adjusted although the pitch is locked. VDJ does handle 24bit 192kHz nicely if your not using DVS.

And as I type this Mixxx which handles vinyl nicely (using phono preamp of course) does not playback 24bit 192kHz. I recently bought my second used 192kHz soundcard, and I can tell you that this soundcard blows my M-Audio Profire out the water. The M-Audio Profire and the Echo Audio soundcards use those dual purpose mic/line on channels 1 & 2... I'm never going back to dual purpose mic/line on my system.

Currently I'm using MIxVibes Producer (don't like Cross) and Mixxx with my new acquired soundcard. Wow, the sound difference is drastically clear. The soundcard used 48kHz with MixVibes and 96kHz with Mixxx. Some DJ software will crash if the soundcard sample rate is inadvertantly set higher than the software implementation (a bug in my book). My new used soundcard GUI prevents this ever happening.

You guys who are convinced there is no hearing difference between 16bit 44kHz and 24bit 192kHz, you not hearing what I'm hearing plain and simple. I have plenty of music I could throw on and flip a switch and compare. Until your hear something better, that your level of sound quality.

Now I'll wait for that version of Mixxx to be released so that I don't have jump through hoops from one DJ software to the next. An MP3 lacks bass, the treble is gritty or screachy, too bright and mids lacks dynamics compare to the original source vinyl. I'm comparing vinyl, Imagine what lossy format does to studio quality audio. I'm on a never ending search to find the right DJ software that will satisfy my needs and style.
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby Mixxx MIxxxermannn » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 am

katsar0v wrote:I will be really thankful if the author of this somewhat senseless topic provides us two files - 192khz 24 bit and 16bit 44.1khz version. Let's do a vote - I'd suggest if more than 50% find a big difference, than we could think about implementing it.

Btw, sometimes a Title or Header are all caps. This isn't 1998 where u explain how to type into a computer.


I'd also suggest that the author learns some basic typography and formatting, not only for articles, but for web.


I once did a test using music I had produced myself to see if and what differences I could hear going down in file quality.

Adam A7 monitors, not a well treated room, but plenty of diffusion from all the crap I had in it, edirol ua-25 sound card running at 24bit/96khz.
Wav, 320k, 256k, 192k, 96k mp3s. Not the most amazing setup, but fairly typical and more revealing than rokits pointed at a blank wall.

I could not hear a difference between the 320k and wavs. The 256k had some differences - with some parts of the mix sounding worse, and some sounding better! Better can simply mean louder.

My main gig is a live sound engineer. 24 bit 192kHz processing is not ubiquitous. Not in digital mixers, not in speaker processors, and not in on-stage effects.

However, shitty acoustics are pretty ubiquitous, so until "richjoh" shows us pictures of the environment he listens to his hand-picked vinyl on through a bozak mixer, I am going to assume no broadband absorption on his walls. Since he can't manage to give us 2 files to compare to prove his thesis, I won't hold my breath waiting for a confirmation of my assumption, either.

Hey "richjoh" switch to traktor, serato, or rekordbox if this is so important to you, or do they not support 192kHz either?
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Re: Why a DJ needs 24bit 192kHz playback

Postby Be. » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:59 am

There's no need for this to turn confrontational. If this thread continues with this tone, I will lock it.
Mixxx is free because it's yours!

I heard FLAC and I haven't gone back.
Protect your hearing with earplugs!

Hear my mixes
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